Joan Carminowe

  Noted events in her life were:

• Background Information: From GEN-MEDIEVAL-L Archives. ¹⁹³
From: Cochoit <cochoit@gmail.com>
Subject: Whalesborough
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:56:48 -0700 (PDT)

Sir WILLIAM de WALESBREU. [1] born c1288 as he was age 14 in 1302 when he was heir to his older brother John who d.s.p.[2] He was of Whalesborough (parish of St. Mawnan), Perran-Uthno (Udnow), Trerose, Langkerf (Lancarffe), Lamelwen (Lamellion), Elwen, and Tresider, in Cornwall.

He was married to Joan Carminow, daughter of Sir Roger Carminow and Joan Dinham, c1293 when he was only 5 years old. In 1302, William Bottreux brought a Writ of Wardship against Roger Carminow to regain possession of William, the brother and heir of John de Whalesboro, presumably because he had suddenly became more valuable. Roger replied to the writ, "William whilst your ward married our daughter." Bottreux was apparently arguing the marriage wasn't valid because "William de Whalesboro was only 5 years old then, and under 14 now". [2,3,4] That they remained married is confirmed by a fine in 1319 which names William De Whalebreus and Johanna his wife as default remainder heirs of Oliver Carminow. [5,6] In a fine of 10 May 1321, Joan, wife of William de Walesbreu was called a sibling of Oliver de Carminow and in another fine of 13 Oct 1333 she is called Joan, who was the wife of William de Walesbreu. [7] As a result of this marriage, the Whalesborough's are said by the History of Trerose Manor website to have acquired the manor of Trerose which had been a Carminow manor; Joan's father Sir Roger Carminow (d. 1308) began the building of Trerose church and his monumental effigy can still be seen in St. Mawgan. [8] However, the Whaleborough's certainly had an interest in Trerose as early as 1213 when it is part of the dower Osemunda. [9]

William was of age on 21 Apr 1309 when Stephen de Bello Prato died holding a 3 acre meadow of William de Whalesbreus in socage and by service of rendering 1d. yearly. [10] On 12 March 1312, William de Whalesbrew granted to John de Carmynow the manor of Udnow and the advowson of the Church of St. Piran for the life of the said William. [11] Carminow presented to St. Perran-Uthno on 11 Dec 1312 [12] and in Feb 1313 regranted the manor and advowson back to William de Whalesbury and Johanna his wife. [13] William presented to the church of St. Mawgan-in-Kerrier on 25 Dec 1317 and 31 Oct 1324. [14]

Sir William De Walesbreu died in 21 August 1328. [15] Tristram Risdon says that "Willelmus Whalisburgh de Whalesburgh, knight, obitt 1328" bore the arms "Gules, three bandlets argent on a bordure sable, nine bezants." [16]

"Joan, who was wife of William de Walesbrew" occurs in a suit in 1335. [17] As Joan, relict of William de Whalesbreu, she presented to St. Mawnan-in-Kerrier 23 Feb 1347 and 6 Nov 1348; her son Sir John de Whalesbreu made the next presentation on 6 Aug 1349 and 3 April 1350. She died after 1 March 1361/62 as she presented one last time at St. Mawnan as Joan, relict of William de Whalesbreu. [18]

i. JOHN WHALESBOROUGH See next.
ii. ISABEL WHALESBOROUGH. Isabel married twice to 1st Henry De Bodrugan and 2nd Henry Wilington. [19,20] Henry De Bodrugan in the Bodrugan pedigrees is said to have married Isabel, daughter of William De Whalesborough [21,22,23], while in the Wilington pedigrees Henry Wilington is said to have married Isabel, daughter of John De Whalesborough. [24,25,26,27] Given that is almost impossible that John De Whalesborough born 1314-1316 had a grandson born c1342, it seems reasonable that Isabel is a daughter of William and that the Wilington pedigrees are in error. 'The Bodrugans' says she "presumably" married the Henry De Wilington who was executed following Battle of Boroughbridge in 1322, however this is an error due to a misreading of 'Thomas Chiverton's Book of the Dead.' [19] So, Isabel m. 1st by 31 December 1324 Henry De Bodrugan son and heir of Sir Oto De Bodrugan and Margaret Chambernoun. [27] He was born c1310 so only about 14 years old at the time. [28] He was the brother of Joan De Bodrugan who married Isabel's brother John. Henry died without issue on 15 October 1331, 5 weeks after his father and not even knowing his father had died. [29,30] Isabel had an order for dower to be assigned on 10 March 1332/33. [31] She married 2nd Sir Henry De Wilington, son of Henry De Wylyngton and Margery Trevill. He was born c1314 (age 13 in 1327) and died 23 May 1349. [32,33] Isabel survived her husband and had assignment of dower on 20 August 1349. [34] She died 20 March 1363. [35]
iii. MARY WHALESBOROUGH. m. Thomas Chiverton, ancestor of the Thomas Chiverton of Perran-uthno who owned 'Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits' in 1599. [36]

1. Based on Ronny Bodine SGM Feb 25 1999 Whalesborough-Walesbreu of Cornwall. http://tinyurl.com/y2bcneg
2. The Putnam Lineage, by Eben Putnam p. cxxii http://tinyurl.com/yfltvyl
3. Ronny Bodine citing Year Book of Edward I, A.D. 1302
4. Visitation of Cornwall 1620, ed. by JL Vivan p. 296 http://tinyurl.com/yl7979y
5. Parishes of St. Teath and Temple (in the History of the Deanery of Trigg Minor series), by John MacLean p. 62 http://tinyurl.com/2d9643r
6. Cal. of Patent Rolls Ed. 1 vol. 3 p. 448 http://tinyurl.com/2e75tof
7. Ronny Bodine citing Cornwall Feet of Fines, no. 458 Cornwall Feet of Fines http://tinyurl.com/39zr6fz
8. History of Trerose Manor website http://www.trerosemanor.co.uk/history.html
9. Regis Curia Rolls, vol. 7 (1213-1215) p. 21-22, 41-42 http://tinyurl.com/2g327ms
10. Cal. of IPM, vol. 5: no. 122 p. 55 http://tinyurl.com/2vecxmf
11. Parishes of St. Teath and Temple (Trigg Minor series), by John
MacLean p. 61 http://tinyurl.com/2d9643r
12. Reg. of Bishop Stapledon, by F.C. Hingeston-Randolph p. 257
http://tinyurl.com/2utx9h9
13. Parishes of St. Teath and Temple (Trigg Minor series), by John MacLean p. 61 http://tinyurl.com/2d9643r
14. Reg.of Bishop Stapledon,by F.C. Hingeston-Randolph p. 255 http://tinyurl.com/2utx9h9
15. Hull, P. L., "Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits," Devon & Cornwall Notes & Queries 33:5 (Autumn 1975), p. 145
16. The note-book of Tristram Risdon, 1608-1628 p. 211 http://tinyurl.com/238tkx2
17. History of the deanery of Trigg Minor, by John MacLean vol. 2, p.
358 http://tinyurl.com/28yubln
18. Reg. of Bishop Grandisson, p. 1365, 1368, 1396, 1406, 1477, 1478
http://tinyurl.com/y6jz4eh
19. Hull, P. L., "Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits," Devon & Cornwall
Notes & Queries 33:6 (Spring 1976), p. 190.
20. Whetter, James, The Bodrugans: A Study of a Cornish Medieval Knightly Family (Cornwall: Lyfrow Trelyspen, 1995.), pp. 10.
21. Family of Cole by James Edwin-Cole p. 6 http://tinyurl.com/288gwff
22. Peerage of Ireland by John Lodge http://tinyurl.com/2f7hl3v
23. Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, vol II by J.J. Howard p.
235 http://tinyurl.com/2g8r6qb
24. History of the Deanery of Trigg Minor, Cornwall. (1874) by John MacLean p. 384 http://tinyurl.com/yyqgux5
25. Complete Peerage by GE Cokayne. 4:97
26. Plantagenet Ancestry, by Douglas Richardson (2004), p. 197
27.
28. Whetter, James, The Bodrugans: A Study of a Cornish Medieval
Knightly Family (Cornwall: Lyfrow Trelyspen, 1995.), p. 42
29. Hull, P. L., "Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits," Devon & Cornwall
Notes & Queries 33:6 (Spring 1976), p. 190.
30. Cal. of IPM vol. VII p. 278 (no. 386 Henry De Bodrigan, see also his father p. 275 no. 385 Otto De Bodrigan) Henry http://tinyurl.com/3yrrzjy Otto http://tinyurl.com/39abbe6
31. Cal. of Close Rolls, (1330-1333) Isabel De Bodrigan dower. http://tinyurl.com/2uo6ts9
32. Parochial and Family History of the deanery of Trigg Minor by John MacLean, 1874 p. 384 Willington http://tinyurl.com/yyqgux5
33. Cal. of IPM vol. 9 p. 195 no. 218 Henry De Wylyngton http://tinyurl.com/2al384x
34. Cal. of Close Rolls vol. 9 (1349-1354) p. 105 Isabel dower http://tinyurl.com/24dm3zz
35. Hull, P. L., "Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits," Devon & Cornwall Notes & Queries 33:6 (Spring 1976), p. 190.
36. Hull, P. L., "Thomas Chiverton's Book of Obits," Devon & Cornwall Notes & Queries 33:8 p.280.

Joan married William Walesbreu, son of Sir Marcus Walesbreu Knight and Matilda Arundel. (William Walesbreu was born about 1288 in Whalesborough, St. Mawnan, Cornwall, England and died on 21 Aug 1328 in England.)